The Ministry of Defense was the first to announce Israel's involvement in the incident, revealing later that the Israeli F-16 had been hiding literally under the wing of the Russia aircraft. Let's ask the distinguished military pilot of Russia, Vladimir Popov, how and why could that be.
- Hello, thank you for coming, Mr. Popov.
- Hello.
- First, explain this technique to us. So, the F-16 turns out to have blended in with our Il-20? How close must the craft be for it?
Vladimir Popov, distinguished military pilot of Russia: It can be called a tactical maneuver of the Israeli air force. On the other hand, it's likely to be a great coincidence of emergency situations. Indeed, the radar cross-section of a large plane, the Il-20 in this case, is several times bigger than that of an F-16, and there were four of them. Anyway, they didn't create a cross-section as big as that plane's. Consequently, it was preparing for landing in the descent phase. Indeed, it was pointless for it to use electronic countermeasures or to maneuver in that case. And, flying just below it, tasked with a tactical strike... And that plane was equipped with electronic protective tools. So, the fighter aircraft attacked from below. Moreover, we should bear in mind that in this case, surface-to-air missile systems have the data on the screens, or targets, as we put it. A bigger target is more vulnerable and easier to aim at. Of course, smaller ones are harder to identify. And it was even worse when they were flying below our Il-20 and could blend in against the surface.
Thus, knowing that the enemy was there, the Syrian air defense broke down under the strain of the fight or the situation in general as the Israeli Air Force attacked ground targets and facilities over 200 times.
- But technically, how close to the Il-20 would the F-16 have fly to in order to blend in for the radar. Is it 60 feet? Or 300 feet?
- It could be miles. One mile, half a mile, it's enough for this to happen, that's what I'm saying. When the missile was launched, it could really see the targets we've just mentioned. I mean the F-16. But the missile's range of vision catches the movement, which makes the missile home in on the target. And it's guided by its own intelligence, serving, identifying, and homing in on targets. Of course, it is free to choose the easier of two targets which it can reach. And something big with a large cross-section is easier to reach. Consequently, the divergence angle was negligible. Only the difference in altitude was considerable. And I repeat that it's more difficult to receive these reflecting waves against the surface than to receive a huge target against the clear sky. So, the re-targeting was automatic.
- So, the Israeli F-16 didn't hide under the Russian aircraft, but was just flying near it, am I right?
- Yes, at a distance…
- At a long distance?
- Yes, and there can be two scenarios. Look, it may turn out that they did know that our aircraft was landing and pointedly carried out the maneuver in that direction so that they could escape from the attack.
- We must understand whether they deliberately used the Russian plane as a shield or it was an accident. If there was a mile of distance, it might have been an accident. But if the distance was 60 feet, it means they did it on purpose.
- A distance of 60 feet is dangerous. And of course…
- But we've seen some our jets or foreign jets flying pretty close to each other.
- The SAMs wouldn't have fired then. The ground-based S-200s wouldn't have fired in that case. But these two targets could be identified and separated. That could have happened because they hoped that if they dodged towards our aircraft then the S-200s wouldn't have fired at all.
- As a military pilot, what measures do you believe could protect us from such incidents in the future?
- First of all — cooperation. Clear cooperation is the key.
- But how could Russia cooperate with Israel?
- At the beginning of the conflict, when our air force arrived in Syria the territory was roughly divided from north to south, from the city of Raqqa to Palmyra. Our air force controlled the west while Baghdad was in charge of the east. We don't deny it today. That's how it's supposed to be. But if somebody wants to conduct an operation over our zone of responsibility they must warn us in advance. Not even coordinate, just warn at least. And not a minute or 30 seconds before they strike, enter the combat zone but an hour or 45 minutes. They entered the area one hour after they'd taken off. It wasn't a contact line between two states it wasn't a state border where something like that could happen. It's 200-250 miles away from Israeli territorial waters. They should've approached the issue diplomatically and answered for their actions.
- Tell us, Mr. Popov are military pilots trained for a situation where they might be used as shields?
- That's one of our tactical moves. It's one of our moves. For example, in case we're evading a missile with an infrared guidance system the kind that targets the exhaust gases from the turbine or exhaust nozzle. In this case, we either deploy a flare — an object brighter in the heat spectrum or evade towards the sun if we're in the shadow. The bright background causes a malfunction in the guidance system. Add it to the evasive maneuver. But that's a strategy for more agile aircraft like bombers or fighter jets. But this one was a transport aircraft.
- Yeah, an Il-20 can't execute…
- It can execute some maneuvers but it wasn't ready to do that. It was either set or turning to a set course. It wasn't ready to execute maneuvers.
- When a missile flies towards an aircraft at what point does the pilot realize that they're being shot at?
- Pretty much at the last moment because that was a chaser-missile and the crew couldn't see it. It was almost night time so they might have seen a small flash from the engine if it was operating at full thrust because those missiles finish their trajectory under their own momentum. The engine is primarily used to launch the missile.
- So our guys realized after it was too late.
- That's what I think. But in such tragic situations, that's probably for the best.
- Thank you, Mr. Popov, for coming here and explaining the situation.
Vladimir Popov, distinguished military pilot of Russia.
